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The appropriation of Mary Sue
OK, so seriously, we have another trailer for The Last Jedi, and I'm just starting to get nervous, because we spent how long a year and a half ago trying to convince people that Rey was not a Mary Sue, and I'm about ready to cut something (ianimate) because I'm too busy being afraid of that starting again t o be excited.
Rey is not a Mary Sue. Batman is not a Mary Sue. Mary Poppins is not a Mary Sue. This is especially true of the last two because their names are in the titles of the canon. Not Sue.
The only acceptable "canon sue" is Jonathon in the Buffy episode Super Star: he was a better fighter than Buffy, better at Magic than Willow and Tara, and knew more about the things that go bump in the night than Giles. And the less said about Willow and Tara's collage the better. However, this was deliberate: Jonathon was literally taking the best of everyone to make himself cooler, it was magic. And in the deft hands of Jane Espensen it makes for damn fine television.
Going back to Rey and Batman though, they don't take anything away from the main characters because THEY ARE THE MAIN CHARACTERS and therefore aren't sues.




Whenever I have discussed the Mary Sue phenomenon as it applies to fan fiction, this is usually my main point (quoting myself from other LoCs):
"Having had decades to observe Sues in action, I'd say that, while there are many variations on the theme, the most consistent and defining characteristic of a Mary Sue character/story is this: the primary characters of the media source product--the ones who usually carry the action, solve the problems, make the decisions, rescue the victims (fill in whatever is appropriate to your fandom)--the heroes of the piece, if you will, are inexplicably warped out of shape. They step back and yield their place in the story to the MS character. MS is then the one who takes the action, makes the decisions, etc."
And that point also can be relevant to some characters in the media source product as well--Wesley Crusher being an excellent example of a canon Mary Sue.
And I will add that, for me, there is a teeny bit of a Mary Sue in Rey's character in The Force Awakens, if only because they are setting her up to be not just a Jedi, but a sooper-dooper Jedi. I was quite taken aback at how she accessed her Force abilities without any training--unlike Luke.
You will note, however, that in both of these examples, these are characters entering into a canon universe that did not originate with them.
When you do create a new universe, that is a different ball of wax. I cannot apply my "defining characteristic of a Mary Sue" to a brand-new character in a brand-new canon. Doesn't make any sense.
I can actually think of a couple of male Mary Sues - Wesley Crusher from ST:NG anyone? - who Gene admitted was a self-insert. So again, that is me disagreeing that canon can't have a Mary Sue character. I think what makes a character a Mary Sue is that they are impossibly perfect - whether they are canon of fanon. Mary Poppins wasn't a Mary Sue because she wasn't perfect - she had her faults. Same with Batman. Same with Luke and Rey.
Wesley may be a self insert, but he's hardly perfect. I find this argument a little self-serving as it's basically an excuse to hate on the character
the mary sue was a self insert who was so perfect that she was unrealistic, she eoften had brightly coloured hair and eyes and all the characters listened to her because they were in love with her. She was a very specific part of a writer's process. Every writer ever has at some point created a self insert who was better than they could ever be in real life - Laurel K Hamilton had an entire series of this, my bad, two, but that doesn't mean a character can't be amazing. If you're only problem with a character's capability is that it's a her and therefore is unrealistic you are suffering from a bad case of the patriarchy. Jupiter Jones from Jupiter Ascending wasn't a mary sue, she was just far too chill for what was going on around her, but that film is someone's early fanfic and that's what makes it wonderful, but when Luc Besson does it it's cinematic masterpiece
Rey isn't a mary sue, she's a character with the same capacity for brilliance as any of the male characters, she just has a different pronoun if your problem is a character is too skilled to be realistic maybe you're setting your own bar too low, so she learned to be a pilot, and given a year in seclusion with a jedi she learned to be a jedi - so did luke, he was taught by a creepy frog in a swamp yes we're going to hear that accusation and it's NOT applicable the problem often isn't that mary sues are prevalent, it's that people assume female characters are inept, and unless someone has super powers they can't be skilled. Now if someone swings in with silver pink hair and violet eyes with angel wolf Channing Tatum hanging on her every word, we can make that accusation, or Anita Blake.
Anita Blake was my absolute first thought, alas.
If Rey is a Sue, Luke is a Sue. As Sundaydinobot said, however, it's an accusation only thrown at female characters
Yeah, this is always thrown at female characters who are competent at their job. It's a way to deligitmize female characters.
Technically a Mary Sue is a fan created character. So canon characters can't be Mary Sues. I guess you could argue that perfect characters are Mary Sues, but I'd just call them badly written.
But Rey has flaws. Batman has flaws. Mary Poppins... I'm not sure because I haven't seen the movie in forever, but she does what her character needs to do.
But then again, if someone wants to write a power fantasy sent in a universe that they love. I say go for it. Fanfiction will never be canon. The existence of that character will not in any way change what happens in canon.