The TV show Game of Thrones and the book series A Song of Ice and Fire
Let's discuss s610 "The Winds of Winter". Spoilers are okay.
OMG OMG OMG !!!
Where to begin ???
What did you like?
What did you dislike?
What will happen next season?
Discuss!

OMG OMG OMG !!!
Where to begin ???
What did you like?
What did you dislike?
What will happen next season?
Discuss!
Please oh please let Lady Mormont have a bigger role in season 7.
She is everything
Yes she is, Amy! I want Lady Mormont on the Iron Throne at the end!!
*SPOILERS**
First off, I loved the work behind the episode - they did a perfect job with the music, the cinematography, the dialogue (and lack thereof at times). It was such a relief to see they didn't crap out on the last episode of the season.
Second, I can't believe the killed Margaery!! I can't believe Tommen just fucking jumped out the window! I seriously did not see that coming.
I loveloveloved that Arya fucking fed that piece of shit his sons and cut his goddamn throat. I wanted so badly for it to be Arya to kill Frey and it was not disappointing in the least.
I did not see this thread coming with Cersei...I think I like show Cersei better than book Cersei. She's closer to everything I'd ever wish her to be (diabolical, cunning, vengeful). I am curious too how things are going to move forward between her and Jamie because in the book they really aren't getting along well, and that look he was giving her from the balcony....it wasn't his happy face.
That Arya scene was wonderfully gruesome and a nice surprise that they didn't drag it out or leave it on a cliffhanger.
Killing Margaery was unexpected and TERRIBLE. I miss her already!
Cersei didn't even weep for Tommen. It's like she knew it was going to happen.
Cersei on the Iron Throne sent a chill down my spine. I don't know where they're going with her and Jaime's plot except that Winterfell, Dorne, and Daenerys now all want to attack her.
I don't think she knew it would happen, but I think she lost the ability to feel sorrow. She has weeped for two other children and that did her no good. The only thing she has left is continue to play the game.
She has a lot left. She has the Iron Throne, she has Jaime, and she gives zero fucks.
That's a scary combination.
Donno if she has Jamie anymore, and the throne is looking rather weak given she has pretty much zero allies at this point.
The zero fucks bit is very true though. I don't see her winning at this point, but she is going to do her hardest to make sure no one else wins either.
Good points. She does still have The Mountain and Qyburn and more Wildfyre. She can wreak a lot of havoc.
Who's the next heir to the throne if she dies? Jaime?
I really donno how the throne line works. I kinda assumed at this point it was more just Cersei saying "I'm claiming it" and there not being anyone else in King's Landing who wanted to challenge her for it. If she dies, and its not because Dany and her Dragons showed up and killed her, I presume Jamie would probably claim it but I really don't know.
Good points. Today the throne officially passed from Baratheon to Lannister. If she dies, it is anyone's for the taking.
Tommen was already dead to her, just as Rickon was already dead to Sansa before the battle ever began.
She's the Re-virginised Queen aka Elizabeth I of Westeros.
Probably the horror-child of Septa Ulenna and the Franken-mountain.
Remind me what happens to Queen Elizabeth I?
That's a good point about Tommen and Rickon already being dead.
They were the weakest generation.
Ulenna + Franken-mountain = Jon Snow II ?
I think when he outlawed trial by combat he essentially sentenced her to death and she immediately hardened her heart to him. He was lost to her as soon as he was won over by the HS and became a religious zealot who was really just a puppet for the HS to control. Tommen was dead to her long before he took a swan dive onto the cobbles.
That's a really good theory.
Question now is: What does Cersei want now?
I think she'll always protect her children because they're hers and she's actually very loyal to her family, but I agree she seemed to have felt nothing because he'd already turned his back on her and sentenced her to death essentially.
I felt when she said "he should be with his brother, sister, and grandfather...burn him and bury his ashes where the sept stood" was like her saying "you choose Margaery and the Sparrow over me in life and in death...you want to be with them so bad? Fine. Burn him."
Also, I forgot her other children and father were buried there until she said something...I think that's a pretty big deal and a huge pointer to her state of mind right now. I don't think she'd normally do that.
Merah yeah she not only killed all those people but burned the corpses of her children and father. Safe to say she gives zero fucks now.
So what does Cersei want now? To see the world burn?
I don't know honestly...I would've said she wanted power and respect and an empire essentially. But now, I think she's going to go down the Mad King path and Jamie is going to be the one to kill her. I think him coming back to King's Landing, seeing part of it burning, and then seeing his sister on the throne - I think he had a flashback and was displeased.
Didn't he have a conversation with her earlier this season about watching the world burn together?
Yeah I guess so, but I'm discounting those interactions tbh because they didn't really happen that way in the book. I feel like this season they emphasized a false connection between the two of them that is no longer there is the books to make their (suspected) division in Season 7 more impactful.
It would be interesting to see the show and the books end up in different places.
My secret worry is now that the show has surpassed the books timeline, Martin may be tempted/influenced to mirror the book more towards whatever's happening/planned for the show.
I don't worry about that at all. GRRM is too set in his ways to be affected by ANYONE.
Yeah, what an amazing episode. I too was sad that they killed off Marg, but she lasted quite a long time, yknow? They are priming us for "The End", because winter has come and with it, the end of the series. Many more will go before the end of season 8, so hold on to your butts.
I sorta saw Tommen's death coming, I haven't read any of the books, but from various discussions on /r/asoif, I believe there were some happenings in the books that pointed to Tommen going out the window or otherwise falling out. It was a really powerful scene, they didn't ham it up or make it overly dramatic, he took off his crown and stepped out. He could no longer live in a world without the faith and in a reality where his mother would torch the entire sept of people.
The gripe I had with the episode was the one after another "OH SHIT" moments all packed right next to each other. The sept bombing, Walder's assassination, the launching of the ships, they had too just tie everything up in the last episode. With normal GoT pacing, all of those things would take three episodes, so it felt a little rushed. Other than that, I enjoyed the episode quite a bit and I'm psyched for next year when we get S7!
Yeah after dragging things out for years suddenly they're in a rush to get to the end?
Do we know for sure there will be eight seasons?
Yes, we've been hearing that we're getting two more seasons, both with considerably less episodes than the previous six seasons.
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-end-date-season-8-1201752746/
Fewer episodes hopefully means more money for special effects.
Still, I am disappoint. They don't need to rush here. We're at the good part! Please drag it out! More Lady Mormont! More dragons! More everything!
I've also heard that though the seasons will be shorter, episodes will be longer than they traditionally have, although admittedly I can't remember the source I heard this from.
I think Tyrion enjoys being The Hand a lot more the second time around.
Sending Melisandre south doesn't seem like much of a punishment.
I guess now she can meet Arya after all.
I forgot that Melisandre is still on Arya's kill list for taking Gendry.
Oh shit, that'd be crazy. Maybe Gendry will come back and she won't care so much anymore though. I think bringing Jon back is a good enough redemption too.
True but does she know Jon is Arya's brother?
I forgot Melisandre is on her list HOLY BALLS SHE'S FUCKED
Unless Mel can convince Arya that she needs her. Which is possible.
Cersei is truly diabolical.
Does Jaime still love her? I can't tell.
Jaime loves her in the same way that Cersei loved Joffery
Well then next season is going to be tense.
That look on Arya's face at the reveal.
Pure bliss.
Did I mention that I entertained the notion that it's the twins, Cersei and Jaime, that Aerys II fathered on Joanna Lannister and not Tyrion. I would be pleased if the book, if not the show, ultimately reveals that Tyrion is actually Tywin's own son.
Fascinating theory. In any case it's heartwarming that Tyrion is finally where he belongs.
Neat parallel:
Daenerys with Tyrion beside her
Yara with Theon beside her
Sansa with Jon beside her
Cersei with Jaime nodding to her
Jaime's going to kill Cersei though. He killed the Mad King just to prevent him from doing what she did. The prophecy said her younger brother would kill her too.
She already did it. No sense killing her now.
Too good of a fate for Walder Frey.
That look on Sam's face in the library.
Pure bliss.
Am I the only one who found the Tower of Joy reveal to be... Disappointing?
I feel like it was one of those things that should've been an incredible reveal, but then once the R+L=J theory got out and everyone went "okay yeah that makes way too much sense to not be true" and so then when they finally confirm it its a little underwhelming.
I was still hype for it though.
I was hype for it too but it felt rushed and anticlimactic.
Without source material to draw from, the writers seemed lost.
Yeah I mean 20 years is a long time to keep a secret that big. Martin likes to lay the foundation for big reveals through subtle hints in his writing and somebody was bound to make the connection.
I was pretty bummed they still felt the need to hold back Jon's true name, the whole scene was less a reveal and more a confirmation :/
Exactly! The big reveal was not so big. :(
Agreed - I still sat on my couch clapping excitedly, but seriously....everyone pretty much knows Jon is his nephew. What the fans are more interested in is WHO is the father and under what conditions.
Also, wasn't there a girl twin for Jon? I mean, I know its too late to introduce that story line, but.... :(
There should have been a twin girl. That would be so Star Wars!
YES! Everyone thinks its Meera...I don't see it. She's not as heavily emphasized as Jon, even in the books (imo) :/
She could just be a character not yet introduced. That would be awesome too.
Best season finale ever? Best season finale ever. I don't think I've ever been so satisfied with any episode of TV.
Best season finale ever, but...
Where is the Hound? Where is the Brotherhood without Banners? Why did they reintroduce them this season only to leave that plot hanging?
Why doesn't Coldhands bring Bran back to the Wall?
Didn't the Arya scene seem rushed and how did she get there so quickly from Braavos?
Speaking of which how did Varys get to Dorne and back so quickly?
Why do Jon and Davos let Melisandre go?
Why does Sansa let Littlefinger live?
Who are these "so many enemies" Jon Snow talks of besides Cersei and the White Walkers?
No LHS? Where is Brienne?
Where is Jorah?
And why was the Tower of Joy scene so anticlimactic?
The red woman is going south now... I think they'll meet up early in S7 and they wanted to reintroduce them now so they don't have to wind that up at the start of the season
Didn't they explain that with hand wavy "the wall is made of magic" stuff?
So Coldhands basically went as far as he could? Does that mean the Walkers still can't pass through the wall either? Why doesn't he just touch Bran to stop the magic like the Night's King did?
Good point about the Hound / Melisandre / Arya reunion.
I'm really hoping there are two seasons left not one. Felt like they rushed through a lot this season.
Yeah. I'm thinking a season to resolve the war of the five queens, and then a (maybe reduced) season to be like "oh shit the white walkers are actually here here" and wrap everything up would be perfect.
Then if HBO wants to keep printing money they can just go back and do stuff about the mad king
The war of the five queens! Brilliant!
Daenerys, Yara, Cersei, Ellaria, Olenna, Sansa... Wait, there are six queens! Seven if we throw in Lady Mormont. :)
Season eight for humanity uniting against the White Walkers would be epic.
There's still time for CleganeBowl too. :)
Counting is hard
I really hope Queen Mormont enters the game. :)
The Hound and the Brotherhood are going North to defend the Wall with the Night's Watch. They'll probably take the oath as well.
Arya ex Machina I forgive. Maybe she met Gendry rowing his boat halfway and gave him a few quick lessons on rowing like No One. LOL
Varys probably took a dragon there and back again. Did you know he probably lost his shaft and nuts in his youth because he's a Targaryen and some servant of the other needed king's blood magic to talk to the Great Other? I wonder how his meeting with the bad pussy went? Material for much hilarity there.
Mel still has a role to play.
She's not done with Littlefinger yet and she's not totally bloodless yet. Arya will probably slit his throat anyway.
Enemies - Do you trust the Umbers, Bronze Yohn Roce, Littlefinger, or even the show Manderlys?
How would you have injected drama in there? They were trying to fit it into a packed episode. Maybe Bran will have further visions of the Tower in Joy in Season 7.
Okay these are all good points except that after all this buildup the Tower of Joy scene felt rushed.
And that's a really good point that Winterfell has lots of enemies and could spend all of season 7 uniting the north for the battle against the white walkers.
I like the thought of the Hound and Brotherhood taking the oath. They seem like they could be the new night's watch.
I like the theory that Varys and Tyrion are both stealth Targaryens too. We could have the seven kingdoms united under Targaryens finally!
I never thought of the Hound taking the Night's Watch Oath...very fitting, I like it. I think we're still owed a Clegane Bowl first though. Its his arch-nemesis and worst fear come to life.
I did NOT think about Varys being Targaryen...I'm excited about the reveal of what he heard in the fire.
Seriously re: Brienne - did you take the long way around Westeros?? How did Varys travel back and forth from Meeren, Arya make her way to the Freys...and she's STILL not home.
Perhaps Varys the Targaryen flew by dragon? :)
Brienne is taking the Gendry "row row row your boat" route.
And I agree that we are owed a CleganeBowl.
The music leading up to the King's Landing scene was soooo good!
Yes that music was so well done!
Margaery figured it out a few minutes too late.
Darn it, I hoped we were done with Dorne.
I guess not.
Why did the bad pussy leave King's Landing? They went all the way there just to kill their cousin? and then sailed home to wait for the Queen of Thorns and Varys to make them offers too good to refuse?
Lazy writers, that's why. And/or they weren't getting good cues from GRRM without source material to pull from.
Tommen took the phrase "Kings Landing" too literally.
Sing A Song Of Ice And Fire, Dragons In The Sky Four and Twenty Frey Parts Baked Into a Pie
Lol. Finally Edmure Tully can get out of the dungeon.
Fuck him! He gave up his name, lands and Uncle for a scrap of dry bread and water. He's been dead for a long time. If his Frey son lives, he'll inherit the Tully lands and Walder will have the last laugh from beyond the grave.
Perhaps the Blackfish is still alive and will teach him a lesson. :)
If wishes were trout...
HAHAHA I literally read ifindkarma's comment, looked away to take a sip of tea and thought "Fuck him." and looked back to see that was your exact response. <3 <3 <3
Nobody likes Edmure. :)
I'm still hoping he gets a redemption arc.
Why??? He's such a useless shit. He just rubs me the wrong way, I strongly dislike him.
Sometimes useless shits become useful.
Samwell Tarly started off a useless shit too. Look at him now!
Winter is here.
What does that mean??
So Coldhands just leaves Bran... Why?
He can't pass the wall because he's half white walker. There's magic keeping them all out.
I thought if Bran passes the wall he negates the magic?
So him and Meera are just going to live in the snow forever and ever and ever? She can't leave him alone, she can't move him, she can't fend for the both of them for long periods of time....idk the wrap up on that storyline sucked. I feel like they half assed it because they wanted to show us the Tower of Joy before the end of the episode.
Bran's the Raven now, so can't he and amera go live in a Weirwood somewhere.
You're right, that storyline started so promising and then screwed itself. Lazy writers!
In terms of who runs the north -- it will be interesting to see what the division of power is between Jon and Sansa. She has already expressed discontent over being discounted, while he expressed unhappiness over her not trusting him over the Knights of the Vale. Looks like there may be some jostling and drama over who has what duties
Kind of like when Robb is angry with Cat for letting Jaime Lannister go?
Reminder that Edmure Tully is still imprisoned and simply having a pregnant wife in a volatile world doesn't mean that succession in Riverrun is a sure thing. Bran is out of the picture politics-wise, and given the circumstances Sansa finally getting her break inheriting Riverrun is a real possibility if something happens to Edmure and/or his baby, this is something Jon has no claim to if shit hits the fan.
Fascinating possibilities for surprises to come! Yes please!
So next season, I guess Daenerys lands in Dorne and reinforces herself with the forces of Dorne and The Reach before heading North to take on King's Landing and the much reduced forces of the new Lannister Queen.
Makes sense to me. Doesn't she have to defeat Euron before marching on Kings Landing?
Euron's planning to offer her his thousand ships and his well endowed appendage. He's the Greyjoy brother-sister's problem.
My friend's enemy is my enemy in Daenerys World.
okay, so here is a question:
ARE WE CONCERNED THAT MY SON BRAN IS GOING TO CROSS THE WALL, DESTROYING IT'S MAGICAL DEFENSES VIA THE NIGHT KING'S BRAND?
YES BRAN DONT DO IT !!!
I thought Coldhands was smart enough to stop him from doing so.
Nope.
Do you ever get so excited about something that your hands getting all shaky and your mind dancing around and goes crazy?? This is how I feel with this whole post I LOVE TALKING ABOUT GAME OF THRONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mee too Merah! Are you named after Meera?
I was hoping for a "Meera is Jon Snow's sister" reveal. Dammit.
Lol no, its a play on my name in another language. :)
Ah, ok. Thank you for clarifying. :)
You know something, Jon Snow.
The true king of the North.
/game_of_thrones/post/how_to_terrify_me_in_six_gifs
They parallels.
Now what happens when Arya (hopefully with Nymeria) and Brandon come home?
Brandon has a greater claim plus he's going to be The Tree in the North (I coined that and I like it).
Maybe Brandon can't be king because he's Tree.
I stand by my staunch belief that Bran is out of the picture politics-wise. He will not end in a position of power after so much time was spent on establishing Sansa and Jon's development in that realm whereas he runs around in the forest doing magic and prophecy and all that.
He still knows nothing. Don't miss that look between Littlefinger and Jnr Miss Littlefinger.
Do not call her that! I hope Sansa finally overcomes him.
When Dany mentioned marriage is one of her most valuable political chips, it really seems like the showrunners are pushing for Jon x Dany.
Consider:
The Reach ruled by woman with no available penises
Dorne ruled by women with no available penises
Iron Island to be wrecked by Dany faction
Edmure Tully is married
Stormlands status unknown, but no penis there for sure
Which leaves Dany -
Sweetrobin - just no, LOL. also, see my notes on LF below.
Theon - kinda addressed this already, but no because he's already on Dany's side and the Iron Islands want independence....marriage does nothing here.
Tyrion - already Hand of the Queen, marriage does nothing here.
Gendry - legitimize all the bastards! I'm guessing the Stormlands are directly ruled by the Crown now? Who knows. Maybe Dany wants to fill the power gap or something. A possibility but it's a longshot.
Unless Dany elevates some houses, which is a possibility, Jon is probably the strongest option for her atm. They may have the opportunity to meet once the WW invasion gets going and mucks up her conquest plans. Everyone else in Westeros is either going to be rekt or is already on Dany's side, Jon is the only uncertain element as far as she is concerned as KitN. What would Jon get out of it? Defeating LF, as it would certainly put a huge monkey wrench in his plans if the king he just declared for shacks up with a much stronger claimant to the Iron Throne. LF tries to go after Jon, gets killed by his own greed and treachery.
Also the book series is called "The Song of Ice and Fire" and all that.....while Jon is both, yes, he was raised as a Stark so he still gets to be "ice" while Dany brings the fire.
The eligible bachelors in Westeros are dropping like wildfire.
How about Jaime? Tormund? Anyone but Jon Snow, who is her uncle, right?
Maybe GRRM is trying to showcase a transition that declares that queens don't need to be married.
She's Jon's aunt, actually. Incest is common for Targaryens (her parents, and Jon's grandparents were brother and sister after all) so at this point I'm pretty desensitized to the whole incest angle. I actually think being Jon's aunt makes it more appealing to her, it's a way she can legitimately sit on the Iron Throne since technically the throne is rightfully his, not hers. Plus, no one but Bran and the Reeds know atm.
I find Jaime unlikely for similar reasons to Tyrion, for all intents and purposes Dany already has her alliance with House Lannister. Not to mention, for personal reasons Dany is unlikely to want to touch the man who killed her father and Jaime is unpacking a lot of feelings of grief for falling in love with a monster. I don't think Tormund will be an advantageous marriage for her since he's a wildling and all.
Queens don't need to be married but I was curious because Dany herself put an emphasis on marriage as a tool she will utilize to achieve her conquest and I was thinking out loud what her actual options were.
There's always Gendry. He's the last Baratheon, right?
Funny how incest is fine for Targaryens but not for Lannisters.
Maybe Dany will just break the old rules and not marry at all even though her words demonstrate that she is willing.
Or maybe she'll marry Jorah like all us shippers have been waiting for.
Or I guess she could marry Bran and unite with the Starks without there being incest, but that complicates who should be on the throne. It's Dany on the throne that I'd like to see.