I wonder if the fact they didn't fully resolve the Cadmus arc in this episode (which was my fear, and that then they would focus on the aliens after Mon El) does that mean the aliens after Mon El will join Cadmus like Indigo joined Non in S1. Or will these 2 villains be defeated before the finale, and then the finale will deal with Cadmus and Cyborg Hank, and Jeremiah?
I really hope the focus stays on Cadmus as the main bad guys but once again I am not expecting it. The lower I set my expectations the less disappointed I'll be and the more surprised I'll be when episodes like 2x15 happen.
Also, yes. Kara is totally settling for Mon El. To hear her say that maybe being supergilr and having him will be enough for her is total bs. Especially after that big save with Alex, we know Alex is the most important person to her, she can't lose her, is her home. Then hear her say all she needs is Mon el? I don't think so. And most importantly she had just said how important being Kara Danvers is to her, she said the same in s1. She craves an outlet that lets her feel human, "normal" but she is settling for him. Why? I don't understand but I think she'll either regret it or realize it isn't enough for her.
Or, she was trying to convince herself. I don't think Kara herself believes what she said.
Alex should have been there! I hope very much that Mon El goes away because I am starting to dislike the bookend Sanvers/Kara-Mon El scenes very much.
And yeah, as you said Maggie was weird. She is not just a girlfriend, she is also a cop. I was stunned when she let Alex go off on her own and was expecting her to call Kara any minute. (Another cause for disappointment although, it won't be if they deal with that in a later episode).
Also, to be honest, I agree with your post on tumblr. Perfect partner is hardly the person who agrees with you on everything (except when their own past comes up). They are the person who cares about your well being. If all they do is enable each others' weaknesses, how good is that?
Which is why, except for the not hugging part, I really liked the Kara-Alex scene at Alex's place. Also, I didn't mean to imply that Kara would have been as impacted by Jeremiah's loss as Alex. I meant that Kara would have known how hard it is for Alex. But, we don't get any scenes with her consoling Alex.
But, as you say, Kara was indeed worried about aliens's safety and just as importantly, she probably expected Maggie to hold Alex in check even if Alex was incapable of reason on her own. And, if the writers did remember that, as @rensoul said, she must have been still smarting and hurt from Alex's harsh words last week. Please let us have a fight, and a stronger together resolution by the end.
I read speculation on the next that this episode is this season's Falling. That is Kara would have to work to regain lost credibility, or here, lost trust. I hope that is the case for the job.
And that we have an episode where she realises she had been settling for both Mon El as well as just being Supergirl. Hell, I'd settle for an episode where she explains why she is with Mon El (as in, where she says she feels isolated).
I am hoping Cadmus would be the season finale; but, if they are going to send away Mon El, then, that might be the season finale. With Cadmus being the series long villain for Kara.
Did it seem weird to you guys that once again, Alex didn't seem to think where Jeremiah was by the end of the episode? As in, she said she hopes they will work together again, but what the hell happened to him? He didn't run away. So, why's there no worry expended on that?
Anyways... You know, if we remove Kara and consider that Alex is the lead of this show, then this episode was actually pretty great! I think most of Alex story was well done. If this was a Castle episode, it'd have worked like this (mostly; you would still have Kara being more of a support for Alex). In fact, for anyone else but Kalex, this was probably a well-liked/well-enjoyed episode. May be even anyone but me (since I was not satisfied with just the ship scene).
But, I also think that is what is wrong with this episode and this whole season. Most of the time they are focusing on one at the expense of other; and most of the time, the one whose growth is being sacrificed is Kara. Why this is happening in her own show is beyond my understanding.
I am mad at Kara for that conversation at Alex's loft where she didn't seem to see Alex's POV at all (see, I criticised Kara; big deal :)). It also looked (after just the one watch) that she came in, said sorry, and rushed out; as if she didn't want to stand and argue with Alex and be persuaded. The only thing that makes it bearable is the fact that the end conversation with J'onn kind of suggested that Kara was also entirely too worried about Alex's safety to make concessions.
I really really liked the conversation between Alex and Jeremiah. Especially how at all times Alex included Kara in the conversation (and Jeremiah too); and I am so glad they showed Alex to be the hero in this episode (I was scared they were going to prove her wrong at the beginning); take that you folks who said Alex is going to join Cadmus by the end of the season!
And I liked how Alex recognised and called Lyra and that bit of moment between Alex and Winn at the DEO.
And Mon El is fast catching up; except, looks like he will be gone come the end of the season and will take Kara's faith along with it.
And it looks like everyone else was right. I was the only one who thought Kara was hurt by that barb last week. Apparently, there is no conversation or making up to do. (they must all be mind readers).
At least, J'onn and Alex conversation was great... (what J'onn did was cruel though. Only time I came near to actual tears at what happened (rather than owing to dismay at the storytelling). And interpolating from that, I guess Kara was thinking of the same thing--Alex's safety (because she said much the same too).
But, I hate the fact that there was no proper talking between Alex and Kara; and that when Kara lost her job, there was no comfort offered from Alex. (And apparently, all Kara needs is being Supergirl and Mon El; who would've thought.)
It really does seem they are paralleling Alex and Kara (Alex getting her job back and Kara losing it). (Sadly, they continue to be railway tracks).
The spaceship scene...I will not talk about it... I mean it was cool... but too little because we don't see an aftermath. (It was not that I didn't love it...but, you can't show a scene like that and then not have them talk to each other at all.)
I honestly don't know what they plan to do with Kalex after this episode. It doesn't look like they consider such things as hanging out, comforting someone after a job-loss or a father loss, or taking pride in each other part of the sisterly framework.
In other thoughts: This seems to be one of those episodes that would have Chyler doing a lot of the work because the rest of the cast is away shooting the crossover.
I loved this episode, it's the best of the season imo.
I didn't mind Kara not staying with Alex longer in that scene at Alex's apartment because Kara was worried about publishing that article in order to warn the alien population. She didn't leave Alex to go off on another story unrelated to Cadmus or Jeremiah. Kara will always focus on saving people/aliens. She may care about Jeremiah but she didn't know him as long as Alex did, it's impossible for her to be as affected by his return as Alex is. She was also right (as was J'onn, though his method of testing Alex was a bit cruel), although Alex turned out to be right about Jeremiah still being good, she was emotionally compromised. Kara asked Alex to stay sit this out not even out of fear that Alex would mess things up (if Jermeiah was actually evil) but out of fear that she would get herself hurt in her recklessness. She told her so.
“You risk making a bad call, putting him in danger, or worse getting yourself hurt.”
This quote right here is why I was not very happy with Maggie’s “ride or die” response to Alex. She may be the perfect girlfriend but I don't agree that this was the best thing to do? Not with Alex's emotions being so on the fritz.
It was very nice to see Maggie support Alex (that’s really all she does in every episode), but I think that she was irresponsible, to a degree. I expect recklessness from Alex, especially when she is emotional, but when she is in this state she does not need someone that will just let her go rogue, she needs someone to cool her down, make her see reason (like Kara did). She wanted to help Alex, that’s great and I enjoyed seeing them team up to save Brian and find out where Cadmus is, but then she let Alex go on her own to infiltrate Cadmus headquarter to save her dad and 100′s of aliens all by herself? No backup? Maggie is a cop, she was calm, she should not have allowed this. The moment Alex said she was going to go on her own is the moment Maggie should have called Kara. Look at what almost happened. Alex might not have gotten physically hurt but she almost ended up on the other side of the universe because she had no backup (I still find it funny and endearing the shit she gets herself into because she crazy XD and it gave us the incredibly emotional and epic Kara/Alex scene). Had Lena not found out where Cadmus was in this episode Alex would not be on earth right now.
I know this is probably not going to be brought up but it would be something great to see in the episode where SPOILERS..................
where Kara and Maggie debate on how to save Alex.
Kara is no fan of Alex going off on her own, without backup, into situations that are more than likely out of her league (remember “you should have waited for me, dummy” in 2x03) and I am sure she was not happy to know Maggie let Alex go alone, let alone not tell her about it.
The thing that got me the most about the Kara/Alex moment was how it can be taken as a big metaphor for their relationship this season. For some reason I cannot begin to explain the show has had Kara and Alex at a distance since around episode 4 but the tease was there since 2x02. All season they have either been at odds or not communicating ("not so good at communicating these days are we?"), and Kara has been feeling left out and like she is losing Alex. This scene was so symbolic of these themes.
Kara felt Alex’s unease this episode, felt worry (”you lost it while interrogating a suspect. Alex, what is going on?”) but in her need to publish her article to warn aliens about what Cadmus was doing she did not think past this. She warned Alex to not do anything reckless and probably trusted that Maggie would keep her out of trouble. Next thing she knows Alex is on a ship that is seconds away from jumping into hyper-speed, seconds away from losing Alex.
We have Kara literally on the outside looking in as she is about to lose Alex, and what’s worse is she feels she can’t do anything to stop it from happening. This is her biggest fear almost being realized but then she has Alex giving her the strength she needs to save her. They are both there, so close and yet not close enough (sounds a lot like this season), kept apart by a thick glass. The focus on their hands wanting to touch but not able to, settling for just being close. The constant eye contact, every time Kara needed to muster up more strength she looked at Alex.
It was an incredibly powerful scene. One (if not THE) best of the season, and maybe even of both seasons so far.
Shame we didn't get a closing scene between them. We still needed to have them talk about all they have been through. But I knew they would give that final scene to Mon El :|
And they most likely will for every episode until the finale, ugh.
You know... If someone is actually reading this thread. ;-)
I have been thinking that the one really good thing this season has done is have Kara and Alex stand on equal grounds. Season 1, however wonderful it was, kind of a had an imbalance when it came to them with Alex being always the one to protect Kara (emotionally as well as physically) and Kara needing the growth.
But, this season, with that scene in Changing (even the scene in Episode 2), and of course the Bechdel failing scenes that Alex and Kara have been having with Maggie being the subject have all had Kara as an equal partner. Even this episode had it with Kara being the voice of reason. I am mad at her because she didn't hug or comfort Alex (and also because what happened to the harsh things Alex said last week?), but she was a great sounding board there for all of 2 minutes--if only she had stayed.
Oh yes, I've been reading this thread; I really appreciate all the insights here. It's taking me a while to fully process my feelings about the Jeremiah arc.
First, I definitely agree that Kara is totally settling again. And this time, it feels like she's deliberately isolating herself. I think in this season (especially the second half), Kara is focusing on following her heart. Unfortunately, Kara is refusing to follow her heart where Mon El is concerned. As before, I'm sure it's because she doesn't have Alex.
Great point about Kara and Alex standing on equal ground this season. I really felt this in Exodus when Kara told Alex that she agreed with J'onn's decision to pull Alex out. I found myself thinking, "Atta girl, Kara!" I'm proud of Kara for standing her ground with Alex and sticking with what she felt was right. Tbh, after Alex's cruel treatment of Kara in the previous episode, I can't be mad at Kara. Also, I was angry with Alex for expecting Kara to automatically support her after such treatment. I'm thinking that Kara may have left quickly to avoid another verbal assault from Alex, which thankfully didn't happen. I have to say I love this more confident version of Kara.
I have more thoughts on this arc which I'll post in the next day or so. Real life is calling. :)
That is true. Alex did hurt Kara and you can't blame her for wanting not to stay.
But, that is also why I was not as convinced by this episode. They had no proper conversation before that ship thing. I'd have liked for them to have atleast mentioned that fight they had last week. To have had a shouting match, which is not resolved by the ship scene. And of course, after the ship scene; to not have them talk... ugh!
I really really need them to talk. (I am a verbal person, so unless people talk stuff, I don't see things. Even the ship scene; I didn't notice many details until I read the tumblr posts. Esp about the music. Melissa and Chyler did an absolutely wonderful job there and on rewatch (just the ship video), I did see how very strong it was: Alex and Kara communicating to each other without talking. )
And, it'd be nice to see some touching and hugging too. Everyone but Alex and Kara seem to be doing it these days.
So, I have thought a bit more about this... And it does look like Kara is settling again. I wish we had some idea about her mindset on this. I mean, she says Kara is who she is and being a reporter makes her feel like she is doing something as Kara and then says that Mon El and Supergirl is enough? Has she been taking "how to be a perfect girlfriend" classes from Alex?
Reminds me of Grey's Anatomy (I think) where Lexie or was it Jackson kept saying this to their partner (Jackson or Lexie, ha! :D), and then Lexie dies at the end of the season (or they breakup or something). At least, that is where I saw it I think.
I expected (after she fell) and liked the Kara-Lena scene (Melissa looks so great when she is mad; I mean, when Kara is mad). But, the funny thing is, while I don't think it was queer baiting (as in, I am pretty sure they don't think that anyone would believe Kara could actually be anything but straight in canon), it did look like the TPTB were having an inside joke (especially when you compare Clark and Lois or even Kara and James in season 1). Wonder what all those people who hate Kara-Lena shippers (because they either like Kara-Mon El or because they consider Kara-Lena folks shippers with an agenda) make of this.
About Maggie; again... I really don't understand how Maggie is the perfect side-kick to Alex every time. The only time when they bring any sort of tension between the two is in the case of their relationship. Which is so very weird. I mean, everyone is saying (everyone but the Kalex folks, I guess) look how healthy their relationship is... But, is the relationship itself supposed to be the subject of a relationship?
I don't know.
From spoilers, it looks like we will get more fleshing out of Maggie but even then, they don't look like a team (although, everyone is saying they are the dynamic duo)...mainly because it doesn't look like they have a goal beyond themselves. Huh... May be that is how romantic relationships are supposed to be? I mean, I have no experience, so can't say. Or may be, I am sore about Kara-Alex, so I am being too hard on Maggie?
You know, you guys, after watching that scene again and realising what the music means and all, I am back to feeling really bad for Kara. With the ending, and there being not even one scene between Alex and Kara where Alex actually worries about Kara, it seems that Alex has kind of dropped her. While to Kara, Alex is still her world.
With her being alone at the apartment (loft?)--before Mon El comes in--it again stressed how alone she is. What she said to Mon El doesn't make sense at all, but may be that is the point (I am still waiting for the writers to pull a magic trick out of their bag).
Unfortunately, I wasn't moved by the ship scene. In fact, this scene was actually painful for me because there was no emotional connection between Alex and Kara either before or after that, and definitely no indication that Alex ever worried about Kara as you said. Also, my mind was still churning from all the prior conflict between Alex and Kara. I think for me the ship scene was a reminder of how much of their bond has been missing this season, and even more so during this second half. Then there's my fear that Kara and Alex's relationship will remain, as you mentioned, like railroad tracks that only meet once in a while after many miles apart. Maybe I'll feel differently when I watch the scene again. I really want to experience the feels that so many others have.
It really does seem that Kara is no longer a priority in Alex's life, and without any explanation from the show. I understand that Alex needs a life outside of Kara and that she's trying to be the perfect girlfriend, but her apparent abandonment of Kara doesn't make sense. In S1 Alex made it clear on multiple occasions how much she needed Kara and couldn't bear to lose her. Even this season continued with this message a number of times until recently, especially in 2x09 and 2x11.
That said, I'm really hoping the writers are ultimately going somewhere positive with these changes. One theory I have is that Alex felt Kara was dropping her. I feel these thoughts may have started during the aftermath of Myriad, then gained traction in 2x02 when Kara wanted to be with Clark in Metropolis.
Of course, the next few episodes show Maggie's growing importance in Alex's life, as well as Mon-El in Kara's. This all comes to a head in 2x08. I remember noticing how little interaction Alex and Kara had in this episode, especially after Mon-El became critically ill. Alex didn't look at all happy when she found out Kara had rushed into Mon-El's chamber, but she hardly said a word. Kara then spent most of her time at Mon-El's bedside. Even the few times Alex and Kara were in the same scene, there was no real connection. I'm sure they were focused on Mon-El's condition, but to me it still felt like something was missing. I wonder if Alex thought then that Kara was falling for Mon-El.. And at the end, Alex and Kara have already gone their separate ways. Then Maggie comes to Alex and Kara goes to Barry's dimension. There was no post-crossover follow up, but my thought is that Alex may have resented Kara for going with Barry so abruptly. It could be that Alex viewed that situation as Kara leaving her behind again.
There's no question Alex cares about Maggie, but I think Maggie is also a "safe" person for her. She doesn't have to worry about protecting Maggie like she has worried about protecting Kara, and she also doesn't have to worry about Maggie leaving her behind to save the world. If she's upset about Kara being with Mon-El, Maggie is definitely a welcome distraction. And at the same time, she may see Mon-El as someone who can take over the role as Kara's protector.
At any rate, Alex and Kara NEED to TALK! There's so much stuff between them they've never addressed or even acknowledged. The scene in 2x07 when Mon-El asks James and Winn if Kara is "taken", the episode shows Kara and Alex talking. I thought at the time that it was very significant that Kara and Alex were shown together; that scene didn't require that Kara be shown with anyone.
I could be reaching, but even after all the stuff the writers continue to put us through, I still hope that by some miracle, Kara and Alex will end up together.
Or... We have a behind the scenes Kalex shipper. :) Though, since they have multiple writers, may be all of them are shipping Kalex off screen because of the way it can be written so wonderfully even with full canon support. :D
What you said about the ship scene, I can empathise with that. When I first watched it, I was not moved either mainly because they had no verbal communication before and after. And because of the distance that has been building for the past few episodes.
But, after all the tumblr talk (I blame venus :)), and when I watched just that bit, I noticed that Kara was indeed communicating with Alex (Melissa was awesome; as was Chyler). And with what Venus said about the Red Tornardo music (which went right over my head by the way), yes I could see how it would be like losing her world all over again for Kara. I could see Alex's faith in Kara too--but, honestly, at that time, Alex had no choice, and besides.. faith is one thing. Love is so much more than that.
To think that we got that scene between Alex and J'onn--which I loved (I love the 3 of them being family)--but not a scene between Alex and Kara. I don't know what to think of it. I mean, it'd be natural to have a scene between the two, right after that fight in the previous episode and the losing faith in this episode? Unless, they are deliberately planning something.
What you said about Alex thinking that Kara doesn't need her anymore or is leaving her behind--I've never thought that way, but yes, it makes sense. (And makes me feel so much better).
I think a problem with their relationship, and this was there even last season, is that they rarely tell each other (not counting the ILUs) how important they are to each other. Sure, we know, because we see them saying this to other people. With Alex, last season, she said that to Alura. And there was this amazing unaired scene with Lord where she talks about Kara and you could see how much she loves and believes in her.
Does Kara know that?
With Kara, with the way she talked to Lord and J'onn about Alex in Myriad, and with the way her first thought after realising she might die in Cadmus' prison was of Alex, we know that Alex is first with her too.
But, does Alex know that?
Kara did tell Alex that Alex was the reason she ever felt at home, but well, she was also ready to move to Metropolis because she thought Alex considered her an obligation; and considering their talk in Changing, Kara probably still felt that; that she took up all of Alex's time and focus while growing up.
And while Alex does tell Kara that "I just feel better when we are together" (a remarkable show of vulnerability) she also spent their fight reinforcing to Kara how much of an obligation she was and that Kara was the reason Alex lost her dad.
May be Alex noticed the Mon El sickbay thing; and may be, connecting that to Clark, Alex thought that he was a better fit for Kara than herself.
But, I don't think just the feeling of being left behind explains how much she has been ignoring Kara this season after getting together with Maggie.
I think, she is also probably swept away by being with someone about whom she doesn't have to worry nearly all the time because she is the safe option as you said (I remember being swept away by a friend for sometime before realising that I love the friends and family I had much more than the new friend, and what I had with her was fleeting);
and just as importantly, if not more, is probably the fact that she herself thinks Mon El (or someone not her) is better for Kara. (I don't think Alex would ever leave Kara behind for long if she knew Kara was being hurt).
So, she perhaps feels the distance is good for both of them. I hope she realises her mistake.
Ugh! If only, we could have this in canon; this discussion between the two, and the slow realisation I mean. But, we are getting no signs from TPTB about that. Or, even, off-canon, they are having such thoughts. (I don't mean I want them to be romantic interests in canon by the way; but they need to know that they are the first with each other, over and above, everything and everyone. and love being with each other and acknowledge that).
Here is some unaired scene that shows (hopefully) what I am talking about. As in, fan fiction I wrote of course, but... I have been calling them unaired scenes. :)
I love the idea of the writers shipping Kalex off screen. Someone posted on Tumblr a while ago that some of the writers hate Mon-El, so hopefully on the flip side there are writers who love Kalex.
Your observation about Alex and Kara not telling each other how important they are to each other is spot on. This issue came up again in Exodus when Alex refers to herself and Kara as Jeremiah's daughters when she confronts him on the Cadmus ship. Alex makes it clear to Jeremiah that Kara is part of the family, but she never says this to Kara. I too loved the scene between Alex and J'onn, and I so wanted a similar scene between Alex and Kara.
I hadn't thought about the possibility of Alex being swept away. That does make sense. I can see Alex being caught up in someone that she doesn't have to worry about or feel responsible for. I can also imagine Alex feeling a sense of freedom. For the first time in years she's doing things that aren't always connected to Kara. And at the same time, I can definitely see Alex believing that she isn't good enough for Kara. On top of all this, Alex is probably in big time denial about her feelings for Kara. I really hope she sees what's she's doing and how much she's hurting Kara (and herself).
One of my head canons is that both Alex and Kara are terrified of how much they love and need each other and as a result keep pushing each other away or running away from each other. They're terrified of losing each other.
I wish the TPTB would make this dynamic canon. As it is, I have no idea where they're going. I'm afraid to hope too much, but it is possible that Kara and Alex are being developed as a very slow burn. I do see one scenario that would make Kalex much more visible on the show yet remain canon-friendly. Only time will tell.
I love your unaired scene fanfic. Once again you've helped me feel better. And you also helped me feel compassion for Alex, which I've been struggling mightily with. I truly wish you were a writer for the show. You have a solid, intimate and beautiful grasp of Kara and Alex's relationship. Let's hope the TPTB eventually see Kara and Alex as you do.
About Kara-Alex. I think I will wait till end of this season before making any solid judgments. (As in, I still have hopes even if right now everything is confusing. :D).
I like your head-canon.
Oh... and about the fan-fic... I am really glad you liked it and it made you feel better. :) I have great faith in Alex's love for Kara. But, writing helps me understand it better myself.
and since we are talking to ourselves here lol ;}
I wonder if the fact they didn't fully resolve the Cadmus arc in this episode (which was my fear, and that then they would focus on the aliens after Mon El) does that mean the aliens after Mon El will join Cadmus like Indigo joined Non in S1. Or will these 2 villains be defeated before the finale, and then the finale will deal with Cadmus and Cyborg Hank, and Jeremiah?
I really hope the focus stays on Cadmus as the main bad guys but once again I am not expecting it. The lower I set my expectations the less disappointed I'll be and the more surprised I'll be when episodes like 2x15 happen.
Also, yes. Kara is totally settling for Mon El. To hear her say that maybe being supergilr and having him will be enough for her is total bs. Especially after that big save with Alex, we know Alex is the most important person to her, she can't lose her, is her home. Then hear her say all she needs is Mon el? I don't think so. And most importantly she had just said how important being Kara Danvers is to her, she said the same in s1. She craves an outlet that lets her feel human, "normal" but she is settling for him. Why? I don't understand but I think she'll either regret it or realize it isn't enough for her.
Or, she was trying to convince herself. I don't think Kara herself believes what she said.
Alex should have been there! I hope very much that Mon El goes away because I am starting to dislike the bookend Sanvers/Kara-Mon El scenes very much.
And yeah, as you said Maggie was weird. She is not just a girlfriend, she is also a cop. I was stunned when she let Alex go off on her own and was expecting her to call Kara any minute. (Another cause for disappointment although, it won't be if they deal with that in a later episode).
Also, to be honest, I agree with your post on tumblr. Perfect partner is hardly the person who agrees with you on everything (except when their own past comes up). They are the person who cares about your well being. If all they do is enable each others' weaknesses, how good is that?
Which is why, except for the not hugging part, I really liked the Kara-Alex scene at Alex's place. Also, I didn't mean to imply that Kara would have been as impacted by Jeremiah's loss as Alex. I meant that Kara would have known how hard it is for Alex. But, we don't get any scenes with her consoling Alex.
But, as you say, Kara was indeed worried about aliens's safety and just as importantly, she probably expected Maggie to hold Alex in check even if Alex was incapable of reason on her own. And, if the writers did remember that, as @rensoul said, she must have been still smarting and hurt from Alex's harsh words last week. Please let us have a fight, and a stronger together resolution by the end.
I read speculation on the next that this episode is this season's Falling. That is Kara would have to work to regain lost credibility, or here, lost trust. I hope that is the case for the job.
And that we have an episode where she realises she had been settling for both Mon El as well as just being Supergirl. Hell, I'd settle for an episode where she explains why she is with Mon El (as in, where she says she feels isolated).
I am hoping Cadmus would be the season finale; but, if they are going to send away Mon El, then, that might be the season finale. With Cadmus being the series long villain for Kara.
Did it seem weird to you guys that once again, Alex didn't seem to think where Jeremiah was by the end of the episode? As in, she said she hopes they will work together again, but what the hell happened to him? He didn't run away. So, why's there no worry expended on that?
It feels like I am talking to myself. :)
Anyways... You know, if we remove Kara and consider that Alex is the lead of this show, then this episode was actually pretty great! I think most of Alex story was well done. If this was a Castle episode, it'd have worked like this (mostly; you would still have Kara being more of a support for Alex). In fact, for anyone else but Kalex, this was probably a well-liked/well-enjoyed episode. May be even anyone but me (since I was not satisfied with just the ship scene).
But, I also think that is what is wrong with this episode and this whole season. Most of the time they are focusing on one at the expense of other; and most of the time, the one whose growth is being sacrificed is Kara. Why this is happening in her own show is beyond my understanding.
And, while I am talking to myself... :)
I am mad at Kara for that conversation at Alex's loft where she didn't seem to see Alex's POV at all (see, I criticised Kara; big deal :)). It also looked (after just the one watch) that she came in, said sorry, and rushed out; as if she didn't want to stand and argue with Alex and be persuaded. The only thing that makes it bearable is the fact that the end conversation with J'onn kind of suggested that Kara was also entirely too worried about Alex's safety to make concessions.
I really really liked the conversation between Alex and Jeremiah. Especially how at all times Alex included Kara in the conversation (and Jeremiah too); and I am so glad they showed Alex to be the hero in this episode (I was scared they were going to prove her wrong at the beginning); take that you folks who said Alex is going to join Cadmus by the end of the season!
And I liked how Alex recognised and called Lyra and that bit of moment between Alex and Winn at the DEO.
Maggie continues to be the perfect girlfriend.
And Mon El is fast catching up; except, looks like he will be gone come the end of the season and will take Kara's faith along with it.
And it looks like everyone else was right. I was the only one who thought Kara was hurt by that barb last week. Apparently, there is no conversation or making up to do. (they must all be mind readers).
At least, J'onn and Alex conversation was great... (what J'onn did was cruel though. Only time I came near to actual tears at what happened (rather than owing to dismay at the storytelling). And interpolating from that, I guess Kara was thinking of the same thing--Alex's safety (because she said much the same too).
But, I hate the fact that there was no proper talking between Alex and Kara; and that when Kara lost her job, there was no comfort offered from Alex. (And apparently, all Kara needs is being Supergirl and Mon El; who would've thought.)
It really does seem they are paralleling Alex and Kara (Alex getting her job back and Kara losing it). (Sadly, they continue to be railway tracks).
The spaceship scene...I will not talk about it... I mean it was cool... but too little because we don't see an aftermath. (It was not that I didn't love it...but, you can't show a scene like that and then not have them talk to each other at all.)
I honestly don't know what they plan to do with Kalex after this episode. It doesn't look like they consider such things as hanging out, comforting someone after a job-loss or a father loss, or taking pride in each other part of the sisterly framework.
In other thoughts: This seems to be one of those episodes that would have Chyler doing a lot of the work because the rest of the cast is away shooting the crossover.
I loved this episode, it's the best of the season imo.
I didn't mind Kara not staying with Alex longer in that scene at Alex's apartment because Kara was worried about publishing that article in order to warn the alien population. She didn't leave Alex to go off on another story unrelated to Cadmus or Jeremiah. Kara will always focus on saving people/aliens. She may care about Jeremiah but she didn't know him as long as Alex did, it's impossible for her to be as affected by his return as Alex is. She was also right (as was J'onn, though his method of testing Alex was a bit cruel), although Alex turned out to be right about Jeremiah still being good, she was emotionally compromised. Kara asked Alex to stay sit this out not even out of fear that Alex would mess things up (if Jermeiah was actually evil) but out of fear that she would get herself hurt in her recklessness. She told her so.
“You risk making a bad call, putting him in danger, or worse getting yourself hurt.”
This quote right here is why I was not very happy with Maggie’s “ride or die” response to Alex. She may be the perfect girlfriend but I don't agree that this was the best thing to do? Not with Alex's emotions being so on the fritz.
It was very nice to see Maggie support Alex (that’s really all she does in every episode), but I think that she was irresponsible, to a degree. I expect recklessness from Alex, especially when she is emotional, but when she is in this state she does not need someone that will just let her go rogue, she needs someone to cool her down, make her see reason (like Kara did). She wanted to help Alex, that’s great and I enjoyed seeing them team up to save Brian and find out where Cadmus is, but then she let Alex go on her own to infiltrate Cadmus headquarter to save her dad and 100′s of aliens all by herself? No backup? Maggie is a cop, she was calm, she should not have allowed this. The moment Alex said she was going to go on her own is the moment Maggie should have called Kara. Look at what almost happened. Alex might not have gotten physically hurt but she almost ended up on the other side of the universe because she had no backup (I still find it funny and endearing the shit she gets herself into because she crazy XD and it gave us the incredibly emotional and epic Kara/Alex scene). Had Lena not found out where Cadmus was in this episode Alex would not be on earth right now.
I know this is probably not going to be brought up but it would be something great to see in the episode where SPOILERS..................
where Kara and Maggie debate on how to save Alex.Kara is no fan of Alex going off on her own, without backup, into situations that are more than likely out of her league (remember “you should have waited for me, dummy” in 2x03) and I am sure she was not happy to know Maggie let Alex go alone, let alone not tell her about it.
The thing that got me the most about the Kara/Alex moment was how it can be taken as a big metaphor for their relationship this season. For some reason I cannot begin to explain the show has had Kara and Alex at a distance since around episode 4 but the tease was there since 2x02. All season they have either been at odds or not communicating ("not so good at communicating these days are we?"), and Kara has been feeling left out and like she is losing Alex. This scene was so symbolic of these themes.
Kara felt Alex’s unease this episode, felt worry (”you lost it while interrogating a suspect. Alex, what is going on?”) but in her need to publish her article to warn aliens about what Cadmus was doing she did not think past this. She warned Alex to not do anything reckless and probably trusted that Maggie would keep her out of trouble. Next thing she knows Alex is on a ship that is seconds away from jumping into hyper-speed, seconds away from losing Alex.
We have Kara literally on the outside looking in as she is about to lose Alex, and what’s worse is she feels she can’t do anything to stop it from happening. This is her biggest fear almost being realized but then she has Alex giving her the strength she needs to save her. They are both there, so close and yet not close enough (sounds a lot like this season), kept apart by a thick glass. The focus on their hands wanting to touch but not able to, settling for just being close. The constant eye contact, every time Kara needed to muster up more strength she looked at Alex.
It was an incredibly powerful scene. One (if not THE) best of the season, and maybe even of both seasons so far.
Shame we didn't get a closing scene between them. We still needed to have them talk about all they have been through. But I knew they would give that final scene to Mon El :| And they most likely will for every episode until the finale, ugh.
You know... If someone is actually reading this thread. ;-)
I have been thinking that the one really good thing this season has done is have Kara and Alex stand on equal grounds. Season 1, however wonderful it was, kind of a had an imbalance when it came to them with Alex being always the one to protect Kara (emotionally as well as physically) and Kara needing the growth.
But, this season, with that scene in Changing (even the scene in Episode 2), and of course the Bechdel failing scenes that Alex and Kara have been having with Maggie being the subject have all had Kara as an equal partner. Even this episode had it with Kara being the voice of reason. I am mad at her because she didn't hug or comfort Alex (and also because what happened to the harsh things Alex said last week?), but she was a great sounding board there for all of 2 minutes--if only she had stayed.
Oh yes, I've been reading this thread; I really appreciate all the insights here. It's taking me a while to fully process my feelings about the Jeremiah arc.
First, I definitely agree that Kara is totally settling again. And this time, it feels like she's deliberately isolating herself. I think in this season (especially the second half), Kara is focusing on following her heart. Unfortunately, Kara is refusing to follow her heart where Mon El is concerned. As before, I'm sure it's because she doesn't have Alex.
Great point about Kara and Alex standing on equal ground this season. I really felt this in Exodus when Kara told Alex that she agreed with J'onn's decision to pull Alex out. I found myself thinking, "Atta girl, Kara!" I'm proud of Kara for standing her ground with Alex and sticking with what she felt was right. Tbh, after Alex's cruel treatment of Kara in the previous episode, I can't be mad at Kara. Also, I was angry with Alex for expecting Kara to automatically support her after such treatment. I'm thinking that Kara may have left quickly to avoid another verbal assault from Alex, which thankfully didn't happen. I have to say I love this more confident version of Kara.
I have more thoughts on this arc which I'll post in the next day or so. Real life is calling. :)
That is true. Alex did hurt Kara and you can't blame her for wanting not to stay.
But, that is also why I was not as convinced by this episode. They had no proper conversation before that ship thing. I'd have liked for them to have atleast mentioned that fight they had last week. To have had a shouting match, which is not resolved by the ship scene. And of course, after the ship scene; to not have them talk... ugh!
I really really need them to talk. (I am a verbal person, so unless people talk stuff, I don't see things. Even the ship scene; I didn't notice many details until I read the tumblr posts. Esp about the music. Melissa and Chyler did an absolutely wonderful job there and on rewatch (just the ship video), I did see how very strong it was: Alex and Kara communicating to each other without talking. )
And, it'd be nice to see some touching and hugging too. Everyone but Alex and Kara seem to be doing it these days.
So, I have thought a bit more about this... And it does look like Kara is settling again. I wish we had some idea about her mindset on this. I mean, she says Kara is who she is and being a reporter makes her feel like she is doing something as Kara and then says that Mon El and Supergirl is enough? Has she been taking "how to be a perfect girlfriend" classes from Alex?
I expected (after she fell) and liked the Kara-Lena scene (Melissa looks so great when she is mad; I mean, when Kara is mad). But, the funny thing is, while I don't think it was queer baiting (as in, I am pretty sure they don't think that anyone would believe Kara could actually be anything but straight in canon), it did look like the TPTB were having an inside joke (especially when you compare Clark and Lois or even Kara and James in season 1). Wonder what all those people who hate Kara-Lena shippers (because they either like Kara-Mon El or because they consider Kara-Lena folks shippers with an agenda) make of this.
About Maggie; again... I really don't understand how Maggie is the perfect side-kick to Alex every time. The only time when they bring any sort of tension between the two is in the case of their relationship. Which is so very weird. I mean, everyone is saying (everyone but the Kalex folks, I guess) look how healthy their relationship is... But, is the relationship itself supposed to be the subject of a relationship?
I don't know.
From spoilers, it looks like we will get more fleshing out of Maggie but even then, they don't look like a team (although, everyone is saying they are the dynamic duo)...mainly because it doesn't look like they have a goal beyond themselves. Huh... May be that is how romantic relationships are supposed to be? I mean, I have no experience, so can't say. Or may be, I am sore about Kara-Alex, so I am being too hard on Maggie?
You know, you guys, after watching that scene again and realising what the music means and all, I am back to feeling really bad for Kara. With the ending, and there being not even one scene between Alex and Kara where Alex actually worries about Kara, it seems that Alex has kind of dropped her. While to Kara, Alex is still her world.
With her being alone at the apartment (loft?)--before Mon El comes in--it again stressed how alone she is. What she said to Mon El doesn't make sense at all, but may be that is the point (I am still waiting for the writers to pull a magic trick out of their bag).
Unfortunately, I wasn't moved by the ship scene. In fact, this scene was actually painful for me because there was no emotional connection between Alex and Kara either before or after that, and definitely no indication that Alex ever worried about Kara as you said. Also, my mind was still churning from all the prior conflict between Alex and Kara. I think for me the ship scene was a reminder of how much of their bond has been missing this season, and even more so during this second half. Then there's my fear that Kara and Alex's relationship will remain, as you mentioned, like railroad tracks that only meet once in a while after many miles apart. Maybe I'll feel differently when I watch the scene again. I really want to experience the feels that so many others have.
It really does seem that Kara is no longer a priority in Alex's life, and without any explanation from the show. I understand that Alex needs a life outside of Kara and that she's trying to be the perfect girlfriend, but her apparent abandonment of Kara doesn't make sense. In S1 Alex made it clear on multiple occasions how much she needed Kara and couldn't bear to lose her. Even this season continued with this message a number of times until recently, especially in 2x09 and 2x11.
That said, I'm really hoping the writers are ultimately going somewhere positive with these changes. One theory I have is that Alex felt Kara was dropping her. I feel these thoughts may have started during the aftermath of Myriad, then gained traction in 2x02 when Kara wanted to be with Clark in Metropolis.
Of course, the next few episodes show Maggie's growing importance in Alex's life, as well as Mon-El in Kara's. This all comes to a head in 2x08. I remember noticing how little interaction Alex and Kara had in this episode, especially after Mon-El became critically ill. Alex didn't look at all happy when she found out Kara had rushed into Mon-El's chamber, but she hardly said a word. Kara then spent most of her time at Mon-El's bedside. Even the few times Alex and Kara were in the same scene, there was no real connection. I'm sure they were focused on Mon-El's condition, but to me it still felt like something was missing. I wonder if Alex thought then that Kara was falling for Mon-El.. And at the end, Alex and Kara have already gone their separate ways. Then Maggie comes to Alex and Kara goes to Barry's dimension. There was no post-crossover follow up, but my thought is that Alex may have resented Kara for going with Barry so abruptly. It could be that Alex viewed that situation as Kara leaving her behind again.
There's no question Alex cares about Maggie, but I think Maggie is also a "safe" person for her. She doesn't have to worry about protecting Maggie like she has worried about protecting Kara, and she also doesn't have to worry about Maggie leaving her behind to save the world. If she's upset about Kara being with Mon-El, Maggie is definitely a welcome distraction. And at the same time, she may see Mon-El as someone who can take over the role as Kara's protector.
At any rate, Alex and Kara NEED to TALK! There's so much stuff between them they've never addressed or even acknowledged. The scene in 2x07 when Mon-El asks James and Winn if Kara is "taken", the episode shows Kara and Alex talking. I thought at the time that it was very significant that Kara and Alex were shown together; that scene didn't require that Kara be shown with anyone.
I could be reaching, but even after all the stuff the writers continue to put us through, I still hope that by some miracle, Kara and Alex will end up together.
Or... We have a behind the scenes Kalex shipper. :) Though, since they have multiple writers, may be all of them are shipping Kalex off screen because of the way it can be written so wonderfully even with full canon support. :D
What you said about the ship scene, I can empathise with that. When I first watched it, I was not moved either mainly because they had no verbal communication before and after. And because of the distance that has been building for the past few episodes.
But, after all the tumblr talk (I blame venus :)), and when I watched just that bit, I noticed that Kara was indeed communicating with Alex (Melissa was awesome; as was Chyler). And with what Venus said about the Red Tornardo music (which went right over my head by the way), yes I could see how it would be like losing her world all over again for Kara. I could see Alex's faith in Kara too--but, honestly, at that time, Alex had no choice, and besides.. faith is one thing. Love is so much more than that.
To think that we got that scene between Alex and J'onn--which I loved (I love the 3 of them being family)--but not a scene between Alex and Kara. I don't know what to think of it. I mean, it'd be natural to have a scene between the two, right after that fight in the previous episode and the losing faith in this episode? Unless, they are deliberately planning something.
What you said about Alex thinking that Kara doesn't need her anymore or is leaving her behind--I've never thought that way, but yes, it makes sense. (And makes me feel so much better).
I think a problem with their relationship, and this was there even last season, is that they rarely tell each other (not counting the ILUs) how important they are to each other. Sure, we know, because we see them saying this to other people. With Alex, last season, she said that to Alura. And there was this amazing unaired scene with Lord where she talks about Kara and you could see how much she loves and believes in her.
Does Kara know that?
With Kara, with the way she talked to Lord and J'onn about Alex in Myriad, and with the way her first thought after realising she might die in Cadmus' prison was of Alex, we know that Alex is first with her too.
But, does Alex know that?
Kara did tell Alex that Alex was the reason she ever felt at home, but well, she was also ready to move to Metropolis because she thought Alex considered her an obligation; and considering their talk in Changing, Kara probably still felt that; that she took up all of Alex's time and focus while growing up.
And while Alex does tell Kara that "I just feel better when we are together" (a remarkable show of vulnerability) she also spent their fight reinforcing to Kara how much of an obligation she was and that Kara was the reason Alex lost her dad.
May be Alex noticed the Mon El sickbay thing; and may be, connecting that to Clark, Alex thought that he was a better fit for Kara than herself.
But, I don't think just the feeling of being left behind explains how much she has been ignoring Kara this season after getting together with Maggie.
I think, she is also probably swept away by being with someone about whom she doesn't have to worry nearly all the time because she is the safe option as you said (I remember being swept away by a friend for sometime before realising that I love the friends and family I had much more than the new friend, and what I had with her was fleeting);
and just as importantly, if not more, is probably the fact that she herself thinks Mon El (or someone not her) is better for Kara. (I don't think Alex would ever leave Kara behind for long if she knew Kara was being hurt).
So, she perhaps feels the distance is good for both of them. I hope she realises her mistake.
Ugh! If only, we could have this in canon; this discussion between the two, and the slow realisation I mean. But, we are getting no signs from TPTB about that. Or, even, off-canon, they are having such thoughts. (I don't mean I want them to be romantic interests in canon by the way; but they need to know that they are the first with each other, over and above, everything and everyone. and love being with each other and acknowledge that).
Here is some unaired scene that shows (hopefully) what I am talking about. As in, fan fiction I wrote of course, but... I have been calling them unaired scenes. :)
I love the idea of the writers shipping Kalex off screen. Someone posted on Tumblr a while ago that some of the writers hate Mon-El, so hopefully on the flip side there are writers who love Kalex.
Your observation about Alex and Kara not telling each other how important they are to each other is spot on. This issue came up again in Exodus when Alex refers to herself and Kara as Jeremiah's daughters when she confronts him on the Cadmus ship. Alex makes it clear to Jeremiah that Kara is part of the family, but she never says this to Kara. I too loved the scene between Alex and J'onn, and I so wanted a similar scene between Alex and Kara.
I hadn't thought about the possibility of Alex being swept away. That does make sense. I can see Alex being caught up in someone that she doesn't have to worry about or feel responsible for. I can also imagine Alex feeling a sense of freedom. For the first time in years she's doing things that aren't always connected to Kara. And at the same time, I can definitely see Alex believing that she isn't good enough for Kara. On top of all this, Alex is probably in big time denial about her feelings for Kara. I really hope she sees what's she's doing and how much she's hurting Kara (and herself).
One of my head canons is that both Alex and Kara are terrified of how much they love and need each other and as a result keep pushing each other away or running away from each other. They're terrified of losing each other.
I wish the TPTB would make this dynamic canon. As it is, I have no idea where they're going. I'm afraid to hope too much, but it is possible that Kara and Alex are being developed as a very slow burn. I do see one scenario that would make Kalex much more visible on the show yet remain canon-friendly. Only time will tell.
I love your unaired scene fanfic. Once again you've helped me feel better. And you also helped me feel compassion for Alex, which I've been struggling mightily with. I truly wish you were a writer for the show. You have a solid, intimate and beautiful grasp of Kara and Alex's relationship. Let's hope the TPTB eventually see Kara and Alex as you do.
About Kara-Alex. I think I will wait till end of this season before making any solid judgments. (As in, I still have hopes even if right now everything is confusing. :D).
I like your head-canon.
Oh... and about the fan-fic... I am really glad you liked it and it made you feel better. :) I have great faith in Alex's love for Kara. But, writing helps me understand it better myself.