U.S. Political news and discussion. International news and politics also welcome.
Echo Chamber
I just saw a post in the Polls community that reflected some of my thoughts this very morning about the possibility that imzy might be an echo chamber of sorts.
So I dug up this article that I read a while back. Here are some key excerpts
Upon examination of Americans’ social media habits, the data reveal that about a third of users do not perceive much diversity of opinion in their news feeds, though many seem to recognize the value of exposure to diverse views. The Pew Research Center’s State of the Media 2016 study shows that 31 percent of social media users perceive the news posted by their friends or family to present diverse opinions, while 35 percent say posts from friends or family present just one set of viewpoints. Of this subset, 69 percent say they would like to see more diverse viewpoints in their online social circle, while 30 percent are okay with one-sidedness.
Data from the Pew Research Center reveal that the echo chamber is not necessarily born of a refusal to consider opposing viewpoints, but has developed out of the negative political climate and of the desire to avoid confrontation.
It's a short read, but it's packed with a lot to think about. I was wondering earlier today why this community doesn't see views from conservative imzy users. It could be a host of things. I have noticed two things and think about them regularly.
If one is to post an article or view that is opposing to their own (which, more often than not is conservative), they begin their post by trying to shield themselves: "I don't personally believe this, but..." (And I'm about to do something similar) I'm not criticizing anyone for that; it's just something I have noticed. I thinks sometimes: "what does this precaution say about imzy? About social media as a whole? About human behavior?"
There have been very caustic reactions (not necessarily in this specific community) about things that are seemingly much less consequential, much less polarizing. I think that there's a possibility that witnessing these reactions may contribute in part to a kind of silence. Again, not trying to criticize, I'm just thinking outloud.
What do you think?




I'm for being open minded but it can be taken too far. If we're too open minded or neutral we run the risk of legitimizing views that are without much merit. It's ok to lean heavily in one direction when there's sufficient evidence.
If the counter argument to an article is an article about "white genocide" or that the moon landing was a hoax... Is it worth posting those? It's good to have healthy debate but such debate can't happen when one side doesn't really have a point.
That said, we probably should acknowledge good points from the other side more than we do. In politics, the problem often comes from both sides being somewhat wrong. We end up picking between two bad options.
Yeah, I can agree with that. There was one article (I'm not sure if it was posted here), but definitely political in nature and it was ultra liberal. It made zero sense to me. It seemed or be arguing for the sake of arguing and not much more, but I was afraid to comment on it.
The reason why I posted this here is because this behavior is cited as being related to the political views that are held and expressed by people in online communities. If you feel this is inappropriate, of course, feel free to remove it, and please accept my sincere apologies for derailing your comm.
I dont have a problem with this post. I do think @ElroyScout has a point, a lot of online conservative Trump supporters are trolls who just want to piss people off not actually discuss anything. See the donald on reddit for an example. This site just from its policies and the way its set up is going to have less of those kind of users then other sites.
Yes I do painfully understand that many Trump supporters are Trolls and I don't want them here, because it's kind of hard to have meaningful conversations when a good portion of the community is only interested in screaming ethic slurs. But what the problem is Imzy might have accidentally kept out all the conservatives that aren't part of the Alt-right, that are normal not horrible people that happen to believe conservative economic principles and the free market work.
That's pretty sad to me for some reason. I definitely see what you're talking about, but basically this outcome says: conservatives are incapable of regular discussion. That feels untrue...and yet...here we are.
That's what makes me wonder and essentially that's why I linked that article: maybe this situation goes a little deeper than that.
Conservatives are very capable of of regular discussion. Most of my family and a few close friends leans conservatively and I've had very in-depth talks with them without anyone throwing things. The problem is how do you make it inviting and not hostile to a group very similar and close to the Alt-right, a group VERY incapable of having a regular discussion.
I dont think all conservatives are incapable of regular rational discussion its just the loudest ones online are not capable of having a discussion. Take a site like reddit, the more popular Trump became the more racist the conservatives on that site became. They would also ban anyone who didnt agree 100% with them on everything. So the net result was more racist trolls who didnt tolerate any dissent. Online conservatism and to a lesser extent real conservatism has become a mix of the alt-right and against anything liberals are for with no real ideas besides that.
I think that's partially what led to my train of thought on some of the behaviors I've noticed here. Is it really just policy that stops them? One has to wonder....
And I'm worried we might end up having the exact reverse of that problem here.
@mrjazzy yeah, there's that too. When the harmful conservatives and regular normal conservatives start mixing in together, the reaction is (at least mine is): please fuck off. Which isn't right, I know, but I'm automatically suspicious because of how closely they intermingle.
We have only banned 1 person here (that turned into huge drama) and are pretty hands off with posts and comments unless someone reports it then we judge it on a case by case basis. But the policies on imzy and just the way the site is designed does make it less inviting to the online conservatives because there is no way to game the site and just promote their stories and posts and shut down other discussion.
Well... maybe you can make a bit of an effort to put up some more varied sources in the politics thread. I'm not asking to bring in Brietbart... but just some stuff that you don't necessarily agree with but can tolerate and ad complexity to the discussion. Diversity of opinions is the cornerstone of a tolerant and diverse society.
I tried that once with the National Review. It was not received well.
Did people not want you to post it?
Yes
Ok.
I didn't know if you meant that there was a discussion issue or if it was the actual post. Thanks for responding.
Well... perhaps Imzy's policies designed to keep trolls out, rub conservatives the wrong way as it's interfering with 'Freedom' and once Imzy gets that reputation, the effect becomes culmative and exponential.
I'd hate to think that all conservatives think the same in regards to "interfering with freedom", but I suppose you're right.
I have no interest in people posting views from American right-wing websites or commentators, honestly. They have nothing of value to add to anything and you can have a diversity of views and opinions without automatically including bigots. Just because one of the major political parties in the US happens to be fascist doesn't mean we have to treat fascism as a legitimate part of the political discourse.
I don't have to entertain a discussion with people who transparently think me and people I care about are less than human because of mine/their status as nonwhite, trans, queer, female, etc, etc.
People constantly talk about this issue in terms of a dichotomy between "conservatives" and "liberals", which is a nasty rhetorical trap laid out by the fascists to make it seem like discussions that don't include them are echo chambers, but that's not true. I have a lot of disagreements with liberals (in the more narrow sense of "center-left"), or with European-style Christian democrats, but I think their ideas are valid and legitimate even if I don't believe in them myself; I believe that they're coming from a place of meaning well. I don't think this is true of US "conservatives", who as a political grouping have been for decades a white nationalist party.
Productive discussion has to come from some base line of shared values; you can't have a debate with someone who wants to annihilate everything you care about.
I don't have much time to comment right now, but this comment raises a few questions for me. I believe I know the answer to them but it is always good to ask.
Is this community only supposed to be about U.S. politics? And if not, what do we do with parties and global political happenings that mirror the "conservatives" you're talking about? And by "what do we do?" I mean do we just not post about them? Or do we post about them and allow community members to decide what that want to de read. France is interesting focus, but should we only read about people other than Marine Le Pen?
I mean, posting about them is fine, I don't have a problem with that, but no, I don't want commentary/opinion from them, yeah? Like I don't think it helps anybody to give a platform to bigots (and by God, if anyone is a bigot, the Front National are bigots). You can understand the position of someone without letting them proselytize at you; and when it comes to fascists, listening to their discourse is sometimes counterproductive to understanding them, because fascists lie nonstop.
Like, those people are just not good faith participants in any kinda discourse.
If I can answer this part.
No you can post global political stories but the same rules apply, make sure its a valid site and nothing like breitbart, daily stormer or stormfront or anything similar to those. The site is mainly english language though so the stories should be in english.
@ignus I can see that. Makes sense.
@mrjazzy Gotcha. :)
I am following this thread because it is an interesting point you bring up and also to make sure the conversations stay civil here. That's how I knew about the new comments, hope no one minds.
@ignus does make some good points, you cant reason with someone who isnt interested in honest discussions or who doesnt care about things like facts. Like the Trump supporters article where they are happy he is pissing off people and dont care about more then that, nothing you can say will get through with them.
I just joined IMZY yesterday, so can't really comment about its political leanings. I would hope that IMZY is more like BB referees. Consistency in moderation, whether that be left or right leaning. I guess I will find out as I fall all over the place... depending upon the subject matter. Which tends to get me labeled, depending upon the subject.
Welcome! I don't think we have a bias problem yet... but perhaps being aware of that potential issue might mitigate that problem.
That's the thing though: most of the content posted is left leaning. That's a bit of a bias I'd say. And I definitely contribute to that. It's not that I don't subject myself to conservative viewpoints, it's just that when I read them outside of imzy, I basically see it as bullshit, so I don't post it here. Lol
Maybe we should try to change that. Don't post a Brietbart source... but just because you don't like an opinion does not mean it's not worthy of existence... because not accepting that axiom is how book burnings happen
Whoa that escalated very quickly.
I feel the need now to point out that I never said or meant to imply that because I don't post conservative articles on imzy that I think they shouldn't exist. If I felt that way, I don't think I'd read them to begin with.
Oops... sorry about that. I just meant to say that maybe that view is not the best to have, because if you stretched the logic you get to a similar conclusion as the people who burned comic books in the 50's.
You don't think that's an extremely far stretch?
Yes... I know, and I thought it was implied. I just really wanted to point out that categorically dismissing entire world views is something that can get morally ambiguous very quickly.
Ok. Then I guess that's where we went wrong. Good to know.
So:
Reading conservative articles outside of imzy and not sharing them on imzy is not at all morally ambiguous. Or morally anything.
Disagreeing with a lot of the conservative articles that I read does not mean I am categorically dismissing entire world views. If I read them, I'm obviously considering them in some aspect. I'm allowed to disagree with them without being accused of being dismissive. I have strongly liberal views; of course the conservative things I read are going to basically seem like hogwash to me because the way in which I feel things should be solved do not follow a conservative line of thinking or theory.
It is also ok if I'm not interested in hashing it out with people on imzy.
I'm ok with people posting conservative articles and viewpoints and I encourage it. I'm not ok with being pushed into a corner or having my reactions interpreted in an extreme way to suggest that I should also post those articles or viewpoints.
I hope this cleared things up a bit.
Basically yes. But perhaps the lesson that comes out of this is perhaps it would be more constructive to add sources to Imzy that we don't necessarily agree with but are necessary to remind this community that other viewpoints exist
Example: I believe transgender rights includes providing nationwide, gender neutral bathrooms. I do not believe it means that one needs to use bathrooms that align with the sex listed on their birth certificate.
That's a liberal viewpoint. Just by chance, it's liberal. Idk.
Oh please. Definitely. Feel free to post content that you disagree with. I encourage it.
But this whole "you should do this or that" can be extrapolated into a very extreme outcome like how you interpreted my comments for whatever reason. I'm not ok with those interpretations. Or with being pushed like that. That's basically what I was saying.
Well... this discussion got real uncomfortable real quick... but I guess that is to be expected for going after something as prickly as echo chambers.
I didn't mean to make it uncomfortable. I just think that when my words are twisted to provide a kind of extreme vision of what my actions (don't) do, it for sure creates a prickly environment.
Ok... I think I'm going to get off this conversation for a bit
The reason why I posted this is to see what's up with conservative imzy users (or the lack of them). If you feel that posting more conservative content will lesson the echo chamber effect, I really want you to do that. But I also believe that no one should have to post anything they don't want to in order to appease a request.
Ok. No problem. Choosing to step away from a conversation is totally fine. And is not any more a moral decision than what I'm doing with conservative articles, I might add.
Hopefully we see you soon. ^-^
Welcome to imzy @HarryH, feel free to post anything as long as its not from sites like Breitbart. We do try and stay unbiased and will really only remove things posted that is offensive or posted just to troll people. If its a legitimate source with legitimate discussion its fine here. Just if you do post something try and comment on that post too not just drop the link and run.
Good rule of thumb... if you wouldn't say it in person... you shouldn't say it here.
I would add dailynewsbin and the palmerreport to any lists.
Thanks for the suggestion man... though I would also suggest you get a profile picture of... something.
Yeah sites like those and stormfront or daily stormer and any similar site will be removed right away. If its a legitimate site though it is generally fine though.
Ooops! I'll get right on that. As soon as I figure out how to change the notification tone.
Under your name on the top right click account then notification and you can change how you get notifications.
Thanks, but I am trying to change the tone on my phone, without turning the sound completely off.