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[SPOILERS] Rogue One - your thoughts?
So, what do you folks think, and what do you want to rave or rant about?
Speaking as a casual Star Wars viewer: I really liked most of it, with one massive caveat (see below), and the ending was positively spectacular. The beginning was rather weak and rushed and unfocused, though, and it wasn't until Jyn's breakout that I felt as if the movie had actually begun. Her relationship with Saw Gerrera, and Saw in general, have used more screentime for sure. Her still-lingering hurt and betrayal, and his weary affection, were tangible even in that one scene and made me want to see more of them, but with so little time spent on their shared background, it felt almost wasted.
Among the primary cast, I took a shine to Bodhi, Baze and especially Chirrut (for his dignity, perceptiveness and conviction) very quickly. Bodhi stands out as a non-combanant who is even more deeply in over his head than the others, which makes him finding his courage and making several absolutely vital contributions even more noteworthy and awesome ... and his death, the "cheapest" of the lot, even more sad.
Speaking of which: I LOVE that they had the guts to actually off the whole group, especially Jyn. I went into the movie hoping for two things: that she would kick ass (without being fetishized or victimized in a typically "feminine" way) ... and that she would die. Proper heroic sacrifice, no pulling of punches, no flinching from the kind of ending that this suicide mission needed, especially in order to properly set the stage for A New Hope. It's not that I didn't have a lump in my throat when each of them died, but it worked and was grimly awesome too. They bought hope for the galaxy with their lives, and I actually prefer that to cheering crowds and medal ceremonies. The "tear-jerker of the movie" award goes to Chirrut's death, and the way Baze (who didn't seem to have much truck with the Force otherwise) repeats his friend's mantra with and for him in his final moments.
Also awesome: Vader! In every scene. I'm not even an actual fan of the character, but he killed it here ... literally, in that blood-chilling and terrifyingly awesome massacre in the end. Showing his power, and the Death Star's power, and the way they turned the mission from a "this might actually work" to "that's it, we're finished" was also vital IMO both for the feel and theme of this movie and for ANH.
Fitting, that Krennic's precious toy of mass destruction is what kills him in the end. He, too, knew he was done for the moment he saw the Death Star overhead.
Now my #1 criticism: where are the women? It's a huge step backwards from TFA, which at least had female extras in most scenes. Here, we don't even get that. They did great on the ethnic diversity front for the male characters, don't get me wrong, and that is definitely worth two thumbs up. I'm just dying for the day we may see similar diversity for female characters. Jyn is not only a Smurfette (no slight to her or her actress, this is on the writers), but she's the kind of Smurfette that Star Wars has featured twice before already: young, short, stereotypically attractive, brunette, and of course white. I liked her, but on her own she just wasn't enough. There wasn't even a single token woman among the nameless redshirts who volunteer for the suicide run, or among Galen's engineers, or among the soldiers whom Vader tears to shreds, or or or ...
What saved the day for me was hearing two or three female voices among the fighter pilots, but that didn't happen until after I'd spent most of what should be the most engrossing part of the movie feeling annoyed by the impression that women were deliberately excluded. Here's to hoping that Episode VIII will continue TFA's more positive trend (and bring back Leia and Maz and actually let them do something, too).
Also a more minor complaint: what happened to Saw's absolutely badass "What will you do when they catch you?" speech from the trailer? I was really looking forward to that! More than anything else, it got me pumped for this movie. As I said, it's a shame that he got so little to do.
I'll go watch it again next week. Vader and the Rogue One crew (may the Force be with them, indeed) are worth it.




I completely agree about the lack of women, I don't see why there couldn't have been more female characters? The waste of Saw as well. I'm a big Clone Wars fan so I was looking forward to seeing him, but was shocked when he died so early on! I loved the movie, but those were the big things that stood out to me. Also, the references to Ahsoka without.. actually...showing her...💔
What were the references to Ahsoka?
Vader says "careful not to choke on your aspirations", something Ahsoka says in Clone Wars. I think Bail Organa makes a vague reference to her as well?
I'm pretty sure Bail was referencing Leia. Nice pick-up on Vader's Ahsoka line. I didn't pick it up at all!
Oh! That's a shame, I thought he was talking about Ahsoka haha. I'm too desperate for Ahsoka references ;-;
I'd love to see Ahsoka! That would be so cool!
Spoilers here if you haven't seen it yet....
Your comment on the start of the film is right on. It felt like reading a Star Wars "Worlds of Star Wars" DK book or something. Too many planets, without any good reason to jump around like that. And the weird truth telling slug thing was also completely throw away. "Unfortunately one side effect is madness" = Bodhi goes on to be the most sane person in the movie? What?
The last 2/3rds were fantastic though. Had they just decided to make a Vietnam war movie in space from the start it would have been great. Let exposition by the people who know what's going on (Mon Mothma, Saw Gerrera) explain the back story rather than try to show it in disservice to more character development. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it tied into the start of ANH, but wonder at what point they swing by Yavin IV to pick up the droids before Vader catches them (one of the bigger continuity/plot errors that bugged me).
Overall I really liked it, will probably like it more on subsequent viewings, and for me it's sitting (right now) tide for 3rd place ranked against the other movies. I'd say it's as good as a New Hope, but also suffers from some of the same objective problems that one does while failing to benefit from the rose colored glasses of nostalgia.
Exactly, the jumping around and things that don't actually lead to anything (like the tentacle monster) were pretty jarring and should IMO have been ditched in favor of the usual brief opening crawl and a bit more exposition from and time with the characters that do matter. It does get much better once the faffing around stops, the crew is assembled and the plot actually takes off.
And heh, that "sanest person" remark made me chuckle. :p
Interesting to read here (and elsewhere) how many are loving this movie. It's not a bad movie, and I enjoyed watching it, but it's a war movie. Perhaps surprisingly it's the first Star Wars movie to be a war movie, but there it is.
Through no fault of its own, this is my least favorite Star Wars movie. I like my Star Wars to be weird and full of strange otherworldly ideas. I like broadly drawn characters who feel more symbolic than real. Rogue One is gritty and feels very much like a World War II movie that features the occasional robot and alien. Don't get me wrong, Rogue One is a good movie, it's just not the kind of movie I like.
That's completely fair, and considering many people's tendency to treat everything as either 10/10 and the hill they want to die on, or 0/10 and the worst thing ever that will single-handedly ruin everything, it's actually a refreshing opinion!
Personally, what I like about Star Wars is mostly the Force and the Jedi (when they're not portrayed as caricatures or punching bags) and the surrounding ideas of mysticism and philosophy ... so this wouldn't be my first choice for plot and characters, either. But it works for me because there's still that theme of (learning to) trust which I also enjoy, plus I really like a good character death and the accompanying willingness to say yep, this story ends here, period. No million and one spinoff comics and movies and cartoons and novels and whatnot to milk and bleed these characters dry (and probably take them hugely out of character several times in the process). They're dead, the end, move on and let them rest in well-earned peace.
... though this still doesn't prevent prequel spinoffs. Ah well. :p
All these critiques are totally true, but I still loved it. Negatives: (1) soundtrack doesn't come close to Williams, (2) really slow pacing in the middle, (3) compared to the rest of the SW universe, the character development is lacking--this is a very plot driven film. BUT, the positives: (1) amazing ending, (2) outstanding third act, (3) best space battle in a SW film, (4) Chirrut, Baze, Bodhi, and Mothma (another woman!) are awesome, not to mention K-2SO, (5) loved Saw and his crew, (6) Really liked Krennic as a bad guy, (7) the second Vader scene is the best SW scene of all time!!!
I put RO right behind ESB, and I give ESB a 10/10! RO gets a 9.85 from me. I love the tone and the focus on the Rebellion instead of the Jedi.
Also, our Star Wars fan film has TWO lead women! Here's the link if you're interested: https://youtu.be/wrqWoTLRzCw