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Discussion: The Jedi Mind Trick
The Jedi Mind Trick is one of those things that seems really neat when you're younger and watching Star Wars, but can become sort of horrifying the more you think about it. It's interesting that "completely removing a being's free will and autonomy" is considered a light side action and is almost exclusively associated with the Jedi, both in the movies and the games (as I recall, the Jedi Knight's storyline has Force Persuade allllllll over it).
So what's your take on this? Is it not that bad? Indicative of where the Jedi Order's moral code has some rough patches? Necessary to get the job done? Share your thoughts, or your OCs' thoughts, or both!




I find it ethically dubious from a philosophical standpoint, but in a lot of cases of it being used, at least in the movies, I find the use pretty easily justified. "These aren't the droids you're looking for"=Luke and Obi-Wan walk away unhurt, the Stormtroopers walk away unhurt (...although maybe get hurt later if someone realizes they had their quarry and let it go), the random bystanders of Mos Eisley who might end up in the crossfire walk away unhurt. "You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookiee to me"=Luke trying every trick in his bag to get his friends out of Jabba's palace without killing anyone.
On the other hand, there's that scene in the Clone Wars where Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Mace Windu combine powers to force information out of Cad Bane. Still arguably justifiable since they're trying to save the lives of children and they're on a tight clock, but the scene is (I'm pretty sure intentionally) a very uncomfortable one that makes you think about what exactly that power is doing to people.
For my part, my Jedi OCs have used it sparingly, but not hesitated to use it when they think it's necessary. The best example that comes to mind is during the False Emperor flashpoint where what's his face is blowing up ships and you can "you aren't going to fire the superlaser" him. It's not a power to be taken lightly or used excessively, but sometimes it's the fastest, surest, and most nonviolent way to save lives, and my Jedi are about that.
I'm not real keen on it and I think it's at best gray. Though how gray depends a little on exactly what the Mind Trick is (which nothing, canon included, seems to be real consistent about). If it's akin to the D&D (bard?) spell - the name of which I can't think of at the moment - that kind of makes you extra believable, but can't be used to get someone to take an action that would be completely out of character or harm them, that's one thing; if it's flat out free will overriding mind control and you could go *Jedi Hand Wave* "You will shoot yourself in the head." and a weak minded person would do so, that's another thing entirely.
I mean, even if it's the first, I don't think its ethical/moral to go throwing it about all the time as a way of solving your problems. (Though Jedi in general seem far too eager to just kind of throw their Jedi-ness around as a solution. There are times in the Prequel era when they come off as basically above the law. The same goes for a few moments in SW:TOR.)
If it's the second, I think it's only "light" because the Jedi are the folks deciding what's light and dark. I'm not seeing a huge ethical difference between "do this thing or I'll Force Lightning you" and "do this thing or I'll mind control you into doing it anyway." (One could spend a lifetime arguing about which is worse, but both strike me as massive abuses of power.)
I mean, either way it could end up being the best of one's options. Sometimes there are no good options, just various levels of bad options. The original trilogy uses of it seem more...acceptable (I don't really want to say "right"). When you get into stuff like the Cad Bane thing jezrana brings up or Obi Wan using the Mind Trick to get someone to go away (the "rethink your life" scene), I find it harder to argue that it was best option. Especially the "rethink your life" scene. Dude, is just saying "No" to hard for you???
If I write more ficlets with my Jedi Consular, I may address the whole "Is the Mind Trick really a good/light thing to do" question. Since she's my Jedi who really, really wants to be a good Jedi (in all senses of the word "good") and who struggles with exactly what that means.
This isn't swtor related, but it is Star Wars related lol. A few years ago I read a fic where Captain Rex had psychological trauma after Ventress used Force persuasion on him. And maybe it was the way it was written but that made me think of the whole thing in a new light. Bc before that I was basically "yea, space magic mind trick. nbd lol."
Overall, I disapprove of it. But.... I guess.... there could be those very specific, rare instances where it'd be "ok"?
there's a lot of wrong things from the jedi order in the movies from a moral pov, the mind tricks, the emotional manipulation, even the way they are entitled to take children away from their homes and families without batting an eye., ether said family agreed or not, because do not tell me some where more than happy to give away their children to some shady religious order. Annnnd I'm not even talking how Shmi Skywalker was treated because that was so ...yikes to me. Or how Yoda, mace and Obiwan faked the latter's death on Anakin's expense, knowing very well the close bond the two had formed over the years and even lied to his face. (those episodes were so fucked up)
my Consular Summxr does use the mind trick in last resort in tensed situations involving others, i.e diplomatic meeting escalating dangerously toward an aggressive outcome, if her natural penchant for diplomacy fails well she'll temper the person's anger. But it does not come to play on actual decisions regarding politics, she understand the nature of this power therefore use it solely on people's flaring emotions (which is wrong bc anger is a natural thing to feel but that's the Jedi order for you)
M'arha does not really need to use it, she's mostly on the battlefield soon after graduating so she cannot really rely on mindtrick against enemies droids, besides she is more a person of actions than losing her time in endless negotiations - that's the Consular job - She may have used it once on Doc to have him back off once and for good, (theres so much she's ready to put up with but a no is a NO so she doesnt really feel guilty about this). However post Fortress Incident she cannot fathom using it on anyone, having experienced the biggest mindfuck ever she is appalled at how Jedi use the same mental manipulation and well let's say that doesn't help her getting her shits together .
I have a full DS jk alt using it all the time tho, as you said it's all over the storyline.
Isn't it Qyzen who always disapproves when you use it? That's pretty much my opinion right there, lol.
But I do think the age thing is critical. You don't think about the ramifications of even the most gentle of mindfucks, in that they are really mindfucks. You're a kid, you're a typical teenager, you're a 20-something dudebro, you don't think too deeply at all. You get this cool power, or you're watching a movie or cartoon where someone you are told you have to like uses that power. You don't think maybe it's a form of torture and abuse, in other words.
Now, salty old me, I do like that the Jedi aren't perfect. What I loathe are the fans who think they are. They, the Jedi, but in so many cases, that becomes they, the fans.
Tharan is the one I remember disapproving most, and specifically because he doesn't condone messing with people's minds. Qyzen I think mostly tends to disapprove of you finding ways to avoid a fight no matter what they are. XD